Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (2025)

littlesheep

Casual Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #1

We have an intermittent issue on our ADSL broadband where video calls often stop working properly. Otherwise speeds and performance are OK for ADSL (upload speed is pretty terrible but my ISP says that's par for the course on your copper lines).

I'm trying to trace the problem and I've generated these test results that say we have apparently very high packet loss. (I'm plugged directly into the router/modem with an ethernet cable for the tests)

I'm trying to understand what this means, because 99% packet loss sounds pretty bad and doesn't quite seem to gel with the speeds shown. Does it really mean that only 1% of the packets sent got through??

The customer experience person at Zen is saying these results are OK. I'm sure he knows more about the tech than me, but I'd like to understand why 99% packet loss isn't a really bad thing?

Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (1)


Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (2)

bon

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #2

Packet loss as you've intimated it a bad thing. I'm surprised Zen are taking no notice of this.

Try https://packetlosstest.com/ and post your results for that too (be sure to select a UK server as it defaults to a US one).

littlesheep

Casual Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #3

bon said:

Packet loss as you've intimated it a bad thing. I'm surprised Zen are taking no notice of this.

Try https://packetlosstest.com/ and post your results for that too (be sure to select a UK server as it defaults to a US one.

Thanks, that seems like a useful site. When I use the default preset (to a UK server) then I get 0% packet loss. OK.

However, when I use the preset to mimic traffic for a Zoom call (which has larger packets) I get this result:

Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (3)

... which doesn't seem so good!

My question now is, is this normal for an ADSL2 line? Because that's what the Zen guy is telling me. He essentially said that I shouldn't really expect video calls to work well over ADSL because of the poor upload speed.

Does anyone reading this have an ADSL line with less than 1Mbps and able to test on https://packetlosstest.com/ with the Zoom preset, and get significantly better results? That might give me something to go back to them with.

Sponsored Links

YuGi

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #4

How many mpbs does a video call take? 1 to 2 mbps download / upload.

I mean with 1mbps upload, that is very limiting to do anything in relations to uploading.

Have you had this issue happen before?

littlesheep

Casual Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #5

YuGi said:

How many mpbs does a video call take? 1 to 2 mbps download / upload.

I mean with 1mbps upload, that is very limiting to do anything in relations to uploading.

Have you had this issue happen before?

According to the Zoom requirements (for example) you need at least 600kbps for video calls... it is true that this is dangerously close to my upload bandwidth. However I'm quite happy for the image to degrade and get a bit pixelated if there's not enough bandwidth.

My problem is that my work calls often don't work even when I turn off video and fall back to voice only. The other participants still can't hear me. This happens frequently and has been happening for months now. So maybe I should be talking about VOIP rather than video calls. Interestingly if I use the VoIP preset on https://packetlosstest.com/ then I get 0% packet loss. So I'm not sure where that leaves me. Apart from desperately needing a fibre connection!

  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #6

littlesheep said:

According to the Zoom requirements (for example) you need at least 600kbps for video calls... it is true that this is dangerously close to my upload bandwidth. However I'm quite happy for the image to degrade and get a bit pixelated if there's not enough bandwidth.

My problem is that my work calls often don't work even when I turn off video and fall back to voice only. The other participants still can't hear me. This happens frequently and has been happening for months now. So maybe I should be talking about VOIP rather than video calls. Interestingly if I use the VoIP preset on https://packetlosstest.com/ then I get 0% packet loss. So I'm not sure where that leaves me. Apart from desperately needing a fibre connection!

Does your area have decent mobile signal? It might be better using that than ADSL.

ADSL was unusable when we used to have it and the area was awful for internet until Virgin Media arrived in the area (at the time, probably Vodafone 4G would have been the best and still the case now with 5G).

insertfloppydiskhere

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #7

insertfloppydiskhere said:

Does your area have decent mobile signal? It might be better using that than ADSL.

ADSL was unusable when we used to have it and the area was awful for internet until Virgin Media arrived in the area (at the time, probably Vodafone 4G would have been the best and still the case now with 5G).

This is my Zoom results on an awful O2 B1+20 connection in an overcapacity area (LTE 2100 and 800 aggregated together, I suspect you might need an explanation lol) with speedtests providing about 10mbps at the moment.

125x better than your ADSL connection for packet loss.

Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (7)

Sponsored Links

Barnet

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #8

@littlesheep

It's a while since I had ADSL but I found that anything that wanted to sync with a "cloud" server (OneDrive, photos etc.) had a tendency to swamp the upload (as I recall about 500kb/s).

You might find a router with Quality of Service (QoS) settings and a degree of fine tuning will help. Now people are getting fast full fibre connections something decent supporting ADSL & VDSL can be sourced second had for a few tens of pounds.

It's quite a decent ADSL line and I assume VDSL (or full fibre) isn't available at your location.

littlesheep

Casual Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #9

insertfloppydiskhere said:

Does your area have decent mobile signal? It might be better using that than ADSL.

ADSL was unusable when we used to have it and the area was awful for internet until Virgin Media arrived in the area (at the time, probably Vodafone 4G would have been the best and still the case now with 5G).

We seem to have moderate 4G and even some 5G coverage here. Using my phone standing in the garden I can get over 100Mbps down and 17Mbps up. However, the ping times appear to be poor: 400ms is typical but highs are sometimes recorded as over 2000ms, which I do not like the look of. I'm wondering how this will play out with things that need low latency like video calls. Is it worth shelling out for a decent 5G modem with ping times like that?

Some Edinburgh Guy

Pro Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #10

Standard broadband — what Openreach calls their ADSL2+ service — is pretty much unusable for modern-day VOIP calling, other than for simply having high quality audio-only voice calls, as the upload speed is just too low to meaningfully sustain the uninterrupted stream of data that is required for video calling. You could proably do it [barely], if your upload speed was closer to 1mbps, but that requires being within a few hundreds metres of the exchange, which most people never are.

In Zoom, you might be able to improve your video feed by turning off the incoming video streams from everyone else or using Speaker view, so as to reduce the number of incoming video feeds [these are local options for your client and does not impact anyone else]. You can also make sure to turn off HD video in the video settings as well.

Ideally, if Zoom is a key thing for you to use, you may be better off using mobile data or upgrading to VDSL or FTTP if its available to you. I assume there is a reason why you are on an ADSL2+ service and don’t have VDSL/FTTC or FTTP? Have you checked on the BT Wholesale checker to see what aervices are available on your line: https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/ [use the address checker with postcode and post results, but make sure to obscure your address from the screenshot]

littlesheep

Casual Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #11

Barnet said:

@littlesheep

It's a while since I had ADSL but I found that anything that wanted to sync with a "cloud" server (OneDrive, photos etc.) had a tendency to swamp the upload (as I recall about 500kb/s).

You might find a router with Quality of Service (QoS) settings and a degree of fine tuning will help. Now people are getting fast full fibre connections something decent supporting ADSL & VDSL can be sourced second had for a few tens of pounds.

It's quite a decent ADSL line and I assume VDSL (or full fibre) isn't available at your location.

Yeah, we can't get any better than ADSL2+ over our phone line at the moment. Fibre overhead is supposed to be coming at some point but looks like being a year away at the earliest.

It's a good point about background software trying to sync. I don't think I have anything like that but it can be hard to know if the OS is doing something maybe. My router is supposed to be set to prioritise "internet telephony" but whether it actually knows which packets are my Google Meet call originating from within Chrome I don't know...

Sponsored Links

insertfloppydiskhere

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #12

littlesheep said:

Yeah, we can't get any better than ADSL2+ over our phone line at the moment. Fibre overhead is supposed to be coming at some point but looks like being a year away at the earliest.

It's a good point about background software trying to sync. I don't think I have anything like that but it can be hard to know if the OS is doing something maybe. My router is supposed to be set to prioritise "internet telephony" but whether it actually knows which packets are my Google Meet call originating from within Chrome I don't know...

Lucky you! BT has no plans here, so glad Virgin Media here.

It might be worth hotspotting your phone's data to a computer and seeing whether the latency is bad, it shouldn't be too bad especially if you get a 5G connection.

I play games on O2 4G from time to time and that has ridiculous ping and I don't notice the latency too badly, it might be worth trying.

littlesheep

Casual Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #13

insertfloppydiskhere said:

Lucky you! BT has no plans here, so glad Virgin Media here.

It might be worth hotspotting your phone's data to a computer and seeing whether the latency is bad, it shouldn't be too bad especially if you get a 5G connection.

I play games on O2 4G from time to time and that has ridiculous ping and I don't notice the latency too badly, it might be worth trying.

Thanks, yeah I have sometimes run online meetings using my phone as a hotspot but it doesn't seem that reliable. 4G hotspot seems to give me a fast connection but has a tendency to drop after a while, which is exactly what I don't want to happen on a work meeting. It might be better if I have a solid external 5G antenna... or it might not? Good to hear that high ping values don't cause you problems.

insertfloppydiskhere

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 18, 2024
  • #14

littlesheep said:

Thanks, yeah I have sometimes run online meetings using my phone as a hotspot but it doesn't seem that reliable. 4G hotspot seems to give me a fast connection but has a tendency to drop after a while, which is exactly what I don't want to happen on a work meeting. It might be better if I have a solid external 5G antenna... or it might not? Good to hear that high ping values don't cause you problems.

Oof, that's not great, a solid external antenna may be helpful. I would recommend creating a separate thread if you want to look into that since it may be better for you and there's people much more qualified than me that could help with that, there's a lot of people using 5G for broadband here though with few issues.

Qbcd

Super Pro Member
  • Apr 19, 2024
  • #15

littlesheep said:

Thanks, that seems like a useful site. When I use the default preset (to a UK server) then I get 0% packet loss. OK.

However, when I use the preset to mimic traffic for a Zoom call (which has larger packets) I get this result:

View attachment 13387

... which doesn't seem so good!

My question now is, is this normal for an ADSL2 line? Because that's what the Zen guy is telling me. He essentially said that I shouldn't really expect video calls to work well over ADSL because of the poor upload speed.

Does anyone reading this have an ADSL line with less than 1Mbps and able to test on https://packetlosstest.com/ with the Zoom preset, and get significantly better results? That might give me something to go back to them with.

I doubt the customer service rep knows what packet loss is, he's just referring to the upload speed, which is just barely enough for a low-res video call. It is not normal to get 62% packet loss on an ADSL2+ line, that's insane. My guess is there's an issue with the line somewhere, interference or poor quality that really manifests at higher speeds.

You can try a 3rd party modem, the Vigor 130 is one of the best ADSL/VDSL2 modems that can be had for £25-35 on Ebay. I used it for my VDSL2 and that fixed its bufferbloat, I don't know if it'll help with packet loss though. You can also try a 3rd party router, but your bandwidth is already so low, and with packet loss I don't know if any sort of QOS can help.

You can try calling again and asking for an engineer who knows what packet loss is, if they can send someone to inspect your line. It's a shame that you have to deal with ADSL2 in 2024. Starlink is another option but that's expensive. I hope faster internet comes to your address soon.

It's strange that you're getting such crazy ping on your mobile, I've never seen 400ms with good speeds. Just to clarify, are you looking at the "idle latency" or "download latency"? Speedtest shows both. The former is what matters, the latter is bufferbloat when your bandwidth is maxed which won't typically happen esp with faster mobile speeds and you shouldn't be affected by it the vast majority of the time.

Also, this may be dumb, but make sure it's not your WiFi that's the issue or your local equipment.

Koda

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 19, 2024
  • #16

insertfloppydiskhere said:

a solid external antenna may be helpful

External antennas are often more trouble than they’re worth. An outdoor router almost always works better since it processes the signal there and then outside. With an antenna you often end up having it in a less than ideal installation location because of the loss of signal worsening the longer the cable length is. I’ve seen many installations where the end result is worse than not having an external antenna at all.

Especially since OP only has experience of a 4G hotspot on their phone there’s a good chance they need nothing more than a decent router anyways. A dedicated router will have a better Internal antenna than most phones to hopefully hold on to signal better, as well as managing a WiFi network better than a smartphone broadcasting a hotspot too.

Sponsored Links

Barnet

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 19, 2024
  • #17

@littlesheep

There may be some benefit in further router tweaking if it is able to "prioritise internet telephony". I suspect that will be looking for VoIP rather than Google Meet.

If there are other Quality of Service settings having a go at them might help (set the line speed to perhaps 90% of what speed test shows)

Can the router do traffic graphs? If so a look at those might give some information about whats going on but I would still be looking for something flooding the upload path.

As for mobile networks, my experience is that EE is generally able to give the best data rate so I might try a hotspot using an operator on EE.

If that experiment is promising then move on to getting a mobile router. I've found placement of the phone or routter is everything

Koda

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 19, 2024
  • #18

Barnet said:

There may be some benefit in further router tweaking if it is able to "prioritise internet telephony". I suspect that will be looking for VoIP rather than Google Meet.

Since OP says they're with Zen it's presumably a FritzBox. From memory of that setting it does indeed mean VoIP traffic for the digital telephone sockets on the back of the router.

Barnet said:

As for mobile networks, my experience is that EE is generally able to give the best data rate so I might try a hotspot using an operator on EE.

I would agree. CMLink have full access to the EE Network and do unlimited data on 30 day rolling contracts with an introductory offer of £24 a month. That would probably be the way I would go for trying it out - After checking on a site like BIDB that EE have at least decent 4G coverage there.

Barnet

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 19, 2024
  • #19

@Koda

"Since OP says they're with Zen it's presumably a FritzBox"

an excellent point.

The first step is then trying QoS settings on the FritzBox (a search for <model number> and QoS settings should give a good first start).

xEl-Capitanx

ULTIMATE Member
  • Apr 19, 2024
  • #20

Zoom, Teams, Webex... Its all the same. They use between 1 and 2 Megabits per second of bandwidth for video functions on the outgoing leg, IE - Your Camera / Device.

You can drop that to 100 Kilobits per second upload with no cam on your end. This is a congestion issue, not a issue with the connection. Speedtest from Ookla (Along with all speedtest apps) will mostly flood your connection to check for bandwidth. Anything below 1 MBPS will likely have what you see here.

What other connectivity options do you have? FTTC / SOGEA or G.Fast? FTTP? Maybe services from an Altnet? How about Mobile? 4G / 5G?

Do you have an ESIM capable device? Try Spusu or Lyca for EE much cheaper. FUP are about 500 - 650 GB per month. (You can get set up today)

You can see what coverage is like and throughput youd get possibly without committing more than a tenner. (Lyca has its haters, but its function works relatively well)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(For ref - I work for a Telco Reseller and specialise in BB faults / provisioning - I see issues like this all day long - My advice is here to help Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (15)Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (16))

You must log in or register to reply here.

Very high packet loss, what does this mean? (2025)
Top Articles
Latest Posts
Recommended Articles
Article information

Author: Rev. Porsche Oberbrunner

Last Updated:

Views: 5811

Rating: 4.2 / 5 (53 voted)

Reviews: 84% of readers found this page helpful

Author information

Name: Rev. Porsche Oberbrunner

Birthday: 1994-06-25

Address: Suite 153 582 Lubowitz Walks, Port Alfredoborough, IN 72879-2838

Phone: +128413562823324

Job: IT Strategist

Hobby: Video gaming, Basketball, Web surfing, Book restoration, Jogging, Shooting, Fishing

Introduction: My name is Rev. Porsche Oberbrunner, I am a zany, graceful, talented, witty, determined, shiny, enchanting person who loves writing and wants to share my knowledge and understanding with you.